Curse

Age · Aug 11, 2010, 11:42 PM // 23:42

The only thing if any I would like to see Punishing Shot get some sort of buff it is your first best elite capped before cripshot in Tyria.

G4ymBoy · Aug 11, 2010, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Actually, I did not intend for Triple Shot to be a preparation, but simply an untyped Skill. That may make it sound ridiculously overpowered, but here's my take on it; an Assassin can add Critical Agility to just about any bar under the sun and get a major benefit. A paragon can always use TNTF for anywhere he goes, and an Ele always gets a nice benefit from Elemental Lord.

You know very well that ele lord is a terrible example for this (another topic for another discussion I just had to point it out).

EDIT: To Age's post above. I agree Punishing used to be great but it really needs work now.

Fay Vert · Aug 12, 2010, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wielder Of Magic

I have a feeling something like that would cause serious balance issues.
Not only when looking at things like Rspike in pvp, but also the fact that when people complain that spears are already broken because of their damage, how broken would a weapon with bigger ranger and damage comparable or even bigger then that of a hammer be?

why bring buffed melees when buffed rangers can one-shot everything?

I agree rangers need a buff, but messing with the damage of the bow is not the way to go imo.

I agree, but I think this is at the very heart of why bows are broken. The high damage of a bow is balanced by it's slow rate and inaccuracy. GW sqrewed it over big by making it 100% hit chance and no damage.

Grj · Aug 12, 2010, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Increase the duration of preparations and lose the annoying aftercast for PvE.

That is all.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 12, 2010, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grj

Increase the duration of preparations and lose the annoying aftercast for PvE.

That is all.

Yea then Rangers will be gods of ranged damage and no one will ever stand a chance...seriously I can't believe you just ended that post with "That is all."

Anyway look at the next few updates that are planned. Look at how many of those updates have been implemented. In all likelihood with plans the way they are these Rangers will never come to be. Either that or we are looking at an update that is almost a year away...

So best keep hopes low and try to find ways to play ranger without being as great as everyone else.

gremlin · Aug 12, 2010, 01:35 AM // 01:35

For the game to function as a multi player game, which at the moment it doesn't there needs to be a place for all the classes.

There is no earthly point in letting players choose their favourite character class "in this case Ranger" only to find they need to stop using a bow concentrate on a build based around secondary class skills, or any of the other excuses to make rangers work.

Nor is it any use to buff rangers to the point where they become modern day snipers with one shot one kill type skills.
Its also important that there are real differences between the classes.

Its been said that Rangers are a toolbox or that they are a jack of all trades and obviously master of none.
I believe that to be the case and the problem, why give a place to a ranger in a party when some other class can do what they do better.

I hope they give more thought to the skill sets in GW2 since its not rocket science.

Warriors are the best at using melee weapons
Rangers can get the most out of missile weapons.
Elementalists are better than any other class at handling elemental magic.

Chthon · Aug 12, 2010, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

Not every profession needs to do big damage or make red bars go up. There are other things to Guild Wars.

No. Like every other game since the invention of the hit point, GW is about (1) do damage, (2) prevent damage, (3) heal damage. Everything else is secondary and exists solely to improve your ability to do those three things or hinder your opponent's ability to do them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Warriors are the best at using melee weapons
Rangers can get the most out of missile weapons.
Elementalists are better than any other class at handling elemental magic.

The problem is that elemental magic and missile weapons are both basically projectile damage sources.

Ka Tet · Aug 12, 2010, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

Did you just say a bear will rape you? Are you stupid?

Go piss off a bear and see what happens. Take lube.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 12, 2010, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

Go piss off a bear and see what happens. Take lube.

That answers my question...

insanethemadone · Aug 12, 2010, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Rangers wont get a larger update in pve simply cos every damn changes needs a split between pve and pvp or the pvp community will rage.....
5 years playing and my main is a ranger its kinda sad to see what the devs have done to rangers.
Simple idea on traps cut traps RC by 50 % and cut the 90 sec lasting time by 50 % and traps slowness problem should be fixed to some point :P

Lillium · Aug 12, 2010, 06:09 AM // 06:09

I disagree with most of this a lot, in many ways. But I'm not going to comb over it to avoid an excessively long post, so a quick sum up of what I've got to add: (Everything I have to add is for PvE only, rangers are a very different role all around for PvP.)
- Traps are fine if you make a build based around them. They take practice (maybe a lot of practice) to get just right, but once you've got the hang of it you can be effective.
- Ranger interrupts should not be touched. They're not meant to be the super fast casting rupts that mesmers have with which you can reliably interrupt 1/4s cast spells. Ranger rupts are much slower and meant to have a calculated use - ie, high priority spells such as meteor shower and res skills. Ranger rupts can also interrupt anything, unlike most mesmer rupts which only work on spells/chants, so you still rupt something when you miss the skill you wanted unless the target is standing with a staff up their bum. Want cake? Ranger rupts are very short recharge and can repeatedly interrupt anything.
- Conditions that rangers actually have they do very well at inflicting and spreading, and all of them that they have come with considerable durations. They even have the most available to one class. I would however like to see some of them a little easier to apply, since some like blind are limited to a few hard to use skills.
- Nature rituals are a bit of a mixed bucket. Some of them are completely amazing (ex frozen soil, anywhere with ressing enemies, favorable winds, or EoE), while have potential but need help (fertile season), and some are total trash (primal echoes, roaring winds). I would appreciate all the activation times nudged down to 3 seconds or less, most are worth 3 sec, but skills like favorable winds would be better lower. Past that the skill group does not have an issue.
- Beast mastery doesn't have a problem with its skills. It has a problem with how pet attacks are handled by the game. For general things this is fine, but rupts or any "while target is X" conditions should be removed. The game simply can't handle those things effectively. (Unless Anet gets creative. Haha.) Otherwise beast mastery is generally pretty great.
- Preparations are nice. They're unstrippable, do nice stuff, generally have a low cost. If you want two preparations to be able to be applied at a time I very much disagree for balance (if not ignore the statement).

What does have problems?
- Marksmanship/Bows. Most of the bow attacks are worse than other weapon's attack skills. Is range really worth that much? Apparently not, since rangers can't justify running something other than barrage or taking daggers/scythes instead. Oh. And maybe BHA on a rupter build once in a while. With an accepting group.
- Stances. I don't think there's "too much of the same thing", warriors have how many purely IAS skills? I think there's two little honestly useful. Having a variety of IAS and IMS is not a bad thing, the problem is that they're all crap. My personal least favorite is something decent for a very short duration and then a long recharge. Yea, thats right, I loathe lightening defenses and whirling defense. Other classes get skills that are near maintainable or at least half the duration of their recharge. I would much rather pick one effect and be able to keep it up for a reasonable time. Having to chain stances for a continuous effect for anything but running is bad and a waste of skill bar space. This is possibly a personal flavor instead of an actual game issue, but I still hate it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

Title is stupid. Ranger isn't overlooked. If they were, they wouldn't have had to wait years for a decent skill balance like the Dervish has. And FYI, your class has a spot in GW2. Mine doesn't. 'Nuff said.

While they're not done announcing classes yet, so sadly true. And rangers for GW2 even look amazing.

Artisan Archer · Aug 12, 2010, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Yes. Like every other game since the invention of the hit point, GW is about (1) do damage, (2) prevent damage, (3) heal damage. Everything else is secondary and exists solely to improve your ability to do those three things or hinder your opponent's ability to do them.

fixed that for you.

Mintha Syl · Aug 12, 2010, 09:38 AM // 09:38

First of all, I'm sorry if I didn't read everything, I tried several times but my eyes really bleed. Apart from the OP being very long (I'm sure it's very interesting, but I can't really make it) there's too many useless posts around (like: rangers don't need buffs ecc.) and the thread became very long.

Basically, that's what I think (I agree with Lilium on many points):

Bow attacks - decent skills are very few, and in fact many of the builds I've seen around consist in alternating 2 skills., because most are conditional. And in general there's no skill that by itself gives you a dmg as high as the other professions have.

Pets (this is my field so maybe I'll be a bit long) - again, many skills are conditional here. And a pet skill being conditional is very bad, due to time it takes for the pet to execute that skill. Let's take Bestial mauling: you have to time it with the knock-down, but you can't really know when the pet will exactly strike, so you're really likely to waste it.
Being able to queue 2 pet skills would really solve a lot, in general. When you use Scavenger's strike, you need the foe to have a condition, so unless you're inflicting it with the bow or your party is doing it, Poisonus bite or much better Enraged lunge is a good way to do it. If those could be queued it would be perfect, but if you do it yourself you're risking to put scavenger's before the condition was applied and so cancel the first one and waste the second, or have the pet use scavenger's when the condition is already gone or the foe already dead (and with enraged the sceond is very likely to happen).
The best non-elite pet attacks, IMHO, have too high a cost, and I'd name Melandru's assualt and Brutal strike. It's true that rangers have expertise to reduce skills cost, but counting how much energy total they have, and the high cost of many skills in all branchs...Melandru's is essentially the barrage for the pets. Not being an elite it sure can't be as much effective, but it already suffers the non-spammability a pet always has; making it cost 10 energy really kills it. Sure it has a wider ranger than barrage has, but stilll... I like bringing it because I like having a bit of AoE, but when I leave it at home I feel my energy management very grateful for it.
Heal as one was changed for good, but still it's not that viable. You take it if you need an autoheal, but if you really need to heal your pet, better take the non-elite counterpart, as the elite's recharge really makes it so that your pet is dead before you can activate it twice, while Comfort animal is highly spammable.

Nature rituals - crazy activation times, and I'll never ever consider worth taking something that advantage both friends and foes, safe in very conditional situations in which you can be sure, knowing foes, that it's really only going to be useful for allies.

Traps - again very slow and odd, as someone said good for solo bad for party; I can't add more as I never used them. (And to think that when I've done my ranger I wanted to base it on traps and rituals, before I knew the sad truth).

Interrupts - Fine as they are, I totally quote Lilium about this.

Conditions and preparations - I think both are fine enough. Conditions don't see much use in any class, but I think rangers have a great way to apply them if they want.

WhiteAsIce · Aug 12, 2010, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Need I point out what everyone is missing about Expertise... Expertise is NOT energy management. There is no such thing as infinite energy with Expertise. Any Ranger with more than 13 Expertise can and will run out of energy in the longer fights of HM.
Expertise doesn't make you gain energy. It only makes you run out slower.

And yes, bows do suck in PvE. There is absolutely no reason to run a bow anymore. With the R/D thing, I was doing over 200 damage per hit with IAS. I do not recall ever doing more than 100 damage with a bow.

Sword Hammer Axe · Aug 12, 2010, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Rangers are not underpowered. Splinter Weapon/Barrage, Incendiary/ignite arrows, Enraged Lunge beastmasters, Glass Arrows marksman, BHA rangers and so on are extremely viable even on Hard Mode.

That said I agree that rangers could use a specific buff: Nature Rituals are stupid, seeing as enemies benefit as much from them, or more, as u do. Also traps are next to useless in PvE.

*lemming* · Aug 12, 2010, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteAsIce

Need I point out what everyone is missing about Expertise... Expertise is NOT energy management. There is no such thing as infinite energy with Expertise. Any Ranger with more than 13 Expertise can and will run out of energy in the longer fights of HM.
Expertise doesn't make you gain energy. It only makes you run out slower.

Guess what energy management is?

Shriketalon · Aug 12, 2010, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillium

Ranger interrupts should not be touched. They're not meant to be the super fast casting rupts that mesmers have with which you can reliably interrupt 1/4s cast spells. Ranger rupts are much slower and meant to have a calculated use - ie, high priority spells such as meteor shower and res skills. Ranger rupts can also interrupt anything, unlike most mesmer rupts which only work on spells/chants, so you still rupt something when you miss the skill you wanted unless the target is standing with a staff up their bum. Want cake? Ranger rupts are very short recharge and can repeatedly interrupt anything.

This used to be the case.

Now Mesmers have Complicate, Cry of Frustration, Cry of Pain, Leech Signet, Signet of Disruption, Web of Disruption, as well as elites like Panic, Psychic Distraction, Psychic Instability, Simple Thievery, and Tease which work on any skill, not just spells. Thanks to the change to Fast Casting, they now have recharge times comparable to most Ranger skills (with the exception of Savage Shot for non-elites, which only gets a damage boost if it hits spells). Worse yet, they have far more AoE capability; nothing in the Ranger's arsenal can hold a candle to Panic, nor hit harder or faster than Psychic Distraction, and even non-elite Mesmer spells can have AoE interruption or disabling effects. Finally, against things that DO use spells, the Mesmer has a bunch of other skills which are outright superior.

Like pretty much everything else the Ranger does, his interruption skills are simply slower and less potent ways of doing something another profession can handle much better.

Femmefatal · Aug 12, 2010, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

Why is this in Riverside rather than the ranger subforum?

I agree please move this where it belongs in the Ranger sub forums about "suggestions". Nobody is going to read that long malarky post anyways here.

G4ymBoy · Aug 12, 2010, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Worse yet, they have far more AoE capability; nothing in the Ranger's arsenal can hold a candle to Panic, nor hit harder or faster than Psychic Distraction

...Barrage+Splinter+EBSoH, IA+Splinter+Ignite+EBSoH. Convince me Mesmers have better AoE. I know the range for most mesmer AoE is wider but you know for a fact that with the right pulling it is easy to hit the max amount of targets with Barrage (mind you i hate using barrage it is just an example).

Add to that the fact that Barrage can be fired constantly. I understand that It takes a few extra skills to achieve it but no, Mesmers do not have better AoE than that. Unless you can think of something. (Not trying to be rude, I feel like I sound rude).

reaper with no name · Aug 12, 2010, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Any Ranger build involving Splinter Weapon will be done better by Ritualists.